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Discussion: Joining The Great Tree
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Professor Askew
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I go where the jacket goes.......... Shocked what?
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Lord Chaos
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian wrote:
It could very well be the case that this particular group becomes completely obsolete the minute Live starts.


I doubt very much that the Great Tree group will become obsolete. There will always be a call for any group surrounding the idea of growth. I don't know how you presented yourselves in the Cavern the first time around, but I would think that emulating that style would be the starting point.

It'll be different this time. Instead of just the Myst-playing population, you'll get more casual players, people who come in as part of Gametap and just take a look at Uru because it's there. They will have no knowledge of the back story.

Brian wrote:
It could also well be the case that the leadership changes... or that we have a falling out among members.


I would hope not. I'm tired of reading about divisions over idealogy. We have more in common than we have to separate us, and I'd hope that wrangling over doctrine would be seen for the very dry, impoverished soil that it is.

There might be problems wtih the DRC.. We don't know what role they will play in New Live.

But the Great Tree is similar to the Guild of Greeters in that you'll know who's joining you by their actions. I have a friend in Until Uru who helps with the Roof! party but wants no formal recognition. She does the same for the Greeters: She often greets, and is very good at it, but doesn't want the formal part. She doesn't need the names. So, in peregrinations about the Cavern it will eventually become clear who supports what.

Daedalus wrote:
TGT is meant to grow along with the events in Live...

Cycreim wrote:
The Great Tree transcends race, gender, nationality and creed...


I would hope so... which is why the Great Tree is an interesting group. How do you form a group from such disparate members? Somehow the idea sort of enfolds all these different people, but they remain themselves. I have no use for doctrinal adherence nor uniformity. I now have a Greeter shirt on D'mala... but it's bright red. Unions that preserve individualtiy are hard to make, fragile, but very powerful too.

Rils wrote:
Problem is, not everyone agrees with every idea. There will be people who agree with us, and will want to join their voice to ours.


Yes... and how we respond to those who disagree is a key. My attitude is to live and let live. I tell my stories as best I can, with no requirement that anyone agree or even be interested. Some are attracted, some are repelled. Meeting the latter with rancor and argument does no one any good.

It gets a little sticky when people try to force change. I had a guy come to the Roof! party one night who wanted me to play hip-hop. I said no, but that he was free to start his own party. He did so, then came to the Rooftop and started trying to get people to move to his. That's proselytizing in the worst way... and most people just put him on their ignore list.

Rils wrote:
Friendships are not based on what group you do or don't "belong" to.


Among the mature, anyway. Some see their own value reflected by those with whom they associate. Hence the way anyone from Cyan gets mobbed when they come to the Cavern. And then the forum threads fill up with "I was with..." and so on. This is also what makes movements: People jump on the bandwagon because it's the one everyone else is jumping onto. It will be abandoned just as quickly. Real growth is hard. What trees do is slow, unspectacular, but strong.

Brian wrote:
... but we request that people don't talk about religion or religious figures here.


This could be a problem. I'm a storyteller more than anything else, whether the story is written in words, sand or something else. I can't arbitrariily remove parts of the story to suit others. How can you tell the story of the Great Tree without talking about Yeesha? That's what you're asking me to do.

It's not my intent to convert anyone, nor to make myself out to be the jmoral standard for anyone. I don't judge. I tell the whole story as best I can, and this has never been a problem on any forum I've written on. If it's going to be a problem here, you might as well delete everything I've written and then terminate my account. Not because I'm upset, but because to try to fit myself to the desired model would be painful. If the Great Tree wants to exclude that kind of branch, so be it. I won't force anything.
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Professor Askew
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, LC, let's see if we can smooth out this little wrinkle. What Brian is saying is absolutley true. But, let me try and elaborate.

As important as the eclectic Great Tree ideology is....at no time in the history of this group has our collective surface lives become part of what we do here. Let me further clarify....

You will see plenty of OOC banter on this forum. You wil see plenty of IC banter on this forum. And rarely do the twain meet. However, this is complicated by the fact that we are ourselves in both cases.

What you will not see on this board are political discussions, religious discussions, socio-economic discussions, or even current fashion trends. The Great Tree is our escape from the surface world. Neither Brian nor Daedalus or anyone else has indicated that these are hard and fast rules. It's not mandatory that we skirt these issues. We just don't talk about them. It's just another thing we all have in common. There are no flame wars on this board. This may be because we're all older than many members of other boards. Or it's because we never talk about the aforementioned issues.

I would not and could not participate with a group like this if it constantly reminded me of my life on the surface. Things are tough enough up there.

But, you brought up a good point. How can you follow Yeesha if you don't talk about Yeesha or spirituality. Well, I believe that's where you got Brian all wrong. Spirituality is not verboten here. Again, we all have our own sometimes private thoughts on the matter. We haven't talked a lot about Yeesha in this group because she's still a huge enigma. And very often we are caught up in other facets more immediate than the less tangible spiritual aspects.

In a nutshell, if you a member of TGT, and you wanted to focus on Yeesha and the Journey from a spiritual perspective, or even a Christian perspective, no one's going to suggest that you be thrown out of the group. As long as you are a participating member of the group and seek similar goals or contribute to our growing philosophies...then everything is gravy. If, however, you began using TGT as a pulpit to push a single agenda, well, there could be a problem. But, we STILL wouldn't ask you to leave. More than likely you would stand back and say, 'hey, maybe the Great Tree is not for me.'

Bottom line: Brian's comments had nothing to do with your beliefs or even your right to express them. He's simply saying that there are subject matters best left on the surface for beautiful, wonderful face to face conversations. As issues-oriented as we appear to be (and we are! lol) we still use the Cavern to escape our daily toil and trouble. Read each and every post for the last two plus years and you'll be hard-pressed to find an extended conversation about the surface.

PS: It seems I'm developing a bad habit for interpreting Brian's words and then making public statements. Understand that I could be completely off-base and talking out of my hat. If so, I apologize in advance. However, the above statement does a fairly accurate job of stating MY thoughts. I also apologize for that, too.
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Durin Mephit
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Professor Askew wrote:
What you will not see on this board are political discussions, religious discussions, socio-economic discussions, or even current fashion trends. The Great Tree is our escape from the surface world. Neither Brian nor Daedalus or anyone else has indicated that these are hard and fast rules. It's not mandatory that we skirt these issues. We just don't talk about them. It's just another thing we all have in common. There are no flame wars on this board. This may be because we're all older than many members of other boards. Or it's because we never talk about the aforementioned issues.


:yeahthat:

That one paragraph sums it up nicely for me. Smile
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Rils
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Making issues out of Cavern events is what we do bestest!
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Cycreim
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeahthat to the Prof. We want you here, LC, don't worry about a thing.

Bluntly, though, we are asking you to censor yourself a little, just on certain topics. There's a lot that I hide in my pockets when I'm down here, things that are very important to me. But man are those things a bit heavy to drop in a conversation. The things I mentioned that the Great Tree transcends... all of those topics of conversation are verboten. Er, on a voluntary basis, of course. We aren't as strict as some other forums can be!

I mean, so far, it's obvious that we're on the same page. We really enjoy your insights, LC, and I love reading your posts. Feel free to express your worries here, wherever they shall arise.
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CuzinJohn
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Professor Askew wrote:
What you will not see on this board are political discussions, religious discussions, socio-economic discussions, or even current fashion trends.


Whew... it's agood thing we don't discuss fashion trends.

I mean c'mon... have you SEEN the hat Cyc wears in the cavern?!?

Laughing

Just kidding amigo... me gusta su sombrero!
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Cycreim
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CuzinJohn wrote:
I mean c'mon... have you SEEN the hat Cyc wears in the cavern?!?

Laughing


You are SO BANNED!! Shocked


Wink
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brian
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yes... and how we respond to those who disagree is a key. My attitude is to live and let live. I tell my stories as best I can, with no requirement that anyone agree or even be interested. Some are attracted, some are repelled. Meeting the latter with rancor and argument does no one any good.


Live and let live is exactly right. But we can try to persuade those who will listen.

Back to religion - I agree with what everyone else has said. Another reason is because the very instant you mention any religion-oriented topic or idea, you alienate someone, whether or not you intend to. It's hard enough for us to maintain cohesion as it is, and introducing this kind of factor would make it extremely difficult. Everyone's beliefs are respected, but we think it best for them to be kept personal. It even makes me cringe when some of us say things like "We follow Yeesha," because that can be taken in so many different ways...

I think we've exhausted this topic now. I'm glad we brought it up, but it should be put back to rest.

If I were in the Cavern right now, I'd suggest we all go jump off trees or something to lighten the air. Smile
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Professor Askew
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

See? Serious.....but not. Very Happy

The Great Tree is superficially intense, man!
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Lord Chaos
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forum communication is interesting. Given the limited bandwidth and message content... finding out what things are really like is sort of like exploring a minefield. Toss a few rocks in there and see what explodes. Smile

It's a problem for newcomers to any organization. The existing people know where they belong. A newcomer can be sort of like a bowling ball, even if that's not the intent. Still, the only way to learn what's going on (unless one happens to be telepathic) is to bounce around and make mistakes. In my first year of sand sculpture the failure rate was about 50%. Smile Stick with it long enough, though...



Here's hoping the Great Tree grows in beauty, too.
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Professor Askew
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sweet! Thanks, LC!
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Malakh
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So how is membership determined? I was never officialy a GT member in Prologue if I recall but I did hang out with some of you, especialy after meeting Brian, Saxy, and Kev in person.

This time around I would really like to get more involved with the group and be an official member.
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Professor Askew
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, Malakh, we're still working that out. There should be SOME criteria but we haven't committed it to any document or anything....yet. But, I wouldn't worry...if you agree with most of what you've read here and the rest of the forum, I don't see anything preventing you from becoming an official member. (But, I didn't say that. Shhh)

I would imagine you'll be able to petition for membership right here on the forum. Or, after long-winded conversations with GT members in the Cavern, you might get hooked up right then and there. What TGT really has to discuss is which members will be allowed to perform the actual recruitment. Every Hood member technically has the ability to bring other Explorers into the Hood but I'm pretty sure we're going to ask our membership to limit that to specific members. For example, only Brian would be "allowed" to share his Hood book.

We still have a lot to iron out but we'll get there.
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Malakh
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Brian is going to be active in MOUL? I was curious about that or if there was going to be some sort of Acting leader in his absence.


I can't say I have read through every post oin this thread yet since there are some very long winded posts but I'd made about half way through and skimmed a large portion of it. I understand the history and view point of The Great Tree as a group and an idea.

To me the appeal of TGT as a group is the emphasis on taking action in the cavern to affect change, getting involved in the story in meaningful ways, and the fact that there was an enthusiastic and charismatic leader for the group. Not to mention being suspicious of the DRC blocking areas off and their seeming pursacution og Sharper and Henderson for their interest in Yeesha's Journey.
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Last edited by Malakh on Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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