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Professor Askew
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Brian said, Tweek...Where and when is the sit-in?
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Saxy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anna Catherine wrote:
The thing with protests is, they're a realy powerful tool, but that's why they have to be used sparingly. If we protest everything that's annoying or bothersome, then no one will take such actions seriously anymore.

What Anna said. That's exactly what I was thinking.

I have no problems protesting this as a last push, but we haven't even gone other routes yet. We're going to make protesting ineffective if we do this at every little hint that the DRC is doing us wrong. "Oh, there goes the Great Tree and their protesting again... for the fifth time this month. *sigh*"
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dcos
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thing is I don't really see this as a small thing anymore. Like I've said before I see it as the thin end of the wedge. Its really one of the first time our Ms. Alexander has made a decission which directly affected the community without consulting us. I see that as pretty big.

I don't see this as being the same as those who protest because the Library isn't being opened today but later this week. I see this as us reclaiming one of the few tools available to us to express discontent.

What else can we do?
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Saxy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dcosgrove wrote:
What else can we do?

I'm trying to come up with other options. Trust me, this is literally the last thing I was thinking of before I fell asleep last night.
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dcos
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anyone can Saxy can Smile

But the more I think about it the Sit in is an excellent way of expressing our opinion. It is In Cavern which I think is a big thing to the DRC, it demonstrates numbrs and its essentially non-confrontational.
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Rils
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dcosgrove wrote:
Yes it was just a message board. Yes the DRC never used it anymore. Yes there were many flame wars and trolls there.

BUT

It was also place in the community where a lot of growth happened, where a lot of essays were written and where we could keep our cautious optimism in check.

AND

We were not consulted about its removal. No chance was given for us to archive all that history. Cate (I assume) took a decission which affected our community without first consulting us.


ok, I'll give you that point.

I won't be able to make it, due to the time/space warp thingy in which every single in-cavern event happens while I'm at work (in this case, 11 a.m. PST on Thursday will find me in an 8 hour meeting programming the new labs we're building). BUT, that's a different complaint.

Like Saxy, I'm cautious about using the "protest" card, but at the same time, we really only ever staged one of them. I was thoroughly against protesting just to get the forums back, but I think if the point is actually the lack of community consideration, I would be more amenable to the cause.

Lets just not forget the good that Lexie has done too. We might dislike her methods, but the ends have been effective (insofar as we have a new Age with another on the way, Ae'gura is being opened up again, Laxman was pushed to get the GZ open "ahead of schedule", etc). I don't think the protest should be personal.
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dcos
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't think the protest should be personal.


I agree. Just my opinion but I think it would be good for The Great Tree to announce (through D'net) that we intend to have a perssence at the protests and outline what our grievances are. If we play up the communication and historical aspects of it then we avoid people saying "it was just a forum" plus it allows us to clarify that (on our part at least) it is not a personal nor a confrontational move but rather one designed to highlight a grievance. It wouldn't hurt if we acknowledged the good Lexie has done for the Cavern.

That way we re-establish our role in the cavern, if anything does happen (as Brian said) we get some of the credit, and if it turns sour we have already stated the reasons why we attened and as long as we all carry ourselves with restraint and dignity it should be nothign but good for us.
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Gadren
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right -- let's not let this get into a "Boo! We hate you Cate!" marathon. Because, just like that KI toon said, we'll end up giving mixed messages of how we criticize when restoration is both slow and fast.

We don't want to start a war. That's the last thing we need.

This protest is going to be by its nature amorphous, since we all have different views of what should happen -- some want the forums back, some want only archives, some are protesting for other reasons.

Let's not rip open old wounds for the heck of it. Smile
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Erik
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will be there... a sit-in isn't rude or something... we don't go yelling at Ms. Alexander, it's just a way to show how many disagree with her decision. Even Mr. Engberg disagrees. She can decide for herself what to do about it, we won't be forcing her. Maybe she'll just ignore us, that's possible, but at least we will show our disagreement.l
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Tweek
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to ask all of you who are not happy with Cate taking away the forums, those of you who would like to see the forums return to join us in a sit in protest in the Tokotah Courtyard* on Thursday at 12pm Cavern Time (12pm Mountain Time, 2 PM EST , 11 AM Pacific, and 19:00 GMT.).

We would like to see the return of the forums and to remind Cate that she can't have everything her way.

We hope to see you there

* The Tokotah Courtyard is located at the top of the Great Stairs in Ae'Gura.
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Marten
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright. If people are dead-set on a sit-in, I just have one suggestion.

Don't call it a protest.

Call it a gathering of people expressing an opinion. Call it an appeal for Cate to make an appearance. But don't call it a protest. Protest sounds so.... reactionary. And indeed, Eleri is now organizing a counter-protest because of the language already used to describe this gathering. [ooc: :thumbsup:]

Cate wanted to know if anyone cared about the forums? Calmly say, "We're just here because Cate asked us to express our opinion. So we are." (place the responsibility for the gathering back on Cate!)

Explain, "We're here to let her know that we do care about the removal of the forum, and we'd appreciate if she would consult explorers before taking actions, rather than as an afterthought. We openly invite her to drop by and discuss this matter with us."

If she continues to miss the point... then I think it's reasonable to move on to a protest.

Just my 2c!
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dcos
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*points up*

Yeah what he said Smile
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Erik
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good post Marten! Smile

And I agree, protest doesn't sound right. Cate asked us some weeks ago what we wanted to see on the new site and made notes... she was (and probably is) interested in our opinion. So, we just make our opinion clear, because Cate wants our input. She can decide for herself what to do with it, but at least she'll know our opinion, and that's the most important.

I posted something like that on my blog too, but... Marten says it a lot better! Razz /me should work on his writing skills... Razz
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Anna Catherine
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that's a good idea. A gathering in support of an idea, not a protest. Positive action, not negative. It's a minor thing, but I do think it makes a lot of difference.

Unfortunately I won't be able to be there (I'll be busily working away in the Archive; even if cool stuff is going on in D'ni, I still have to be able to pay the bills... Wink) but consider me also in support of bringing the forums back.

I hope Cate and Co. will take notice. Smile

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Quaxo
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To tell the truth, at the begining I was reluctant to give my opinion on this particular issue. For starters, I really didn't know the whole story of the shut down, but the clincher was really the fact that I am currently unable to get into the cavern. The binding on my Relto book's come loose and I really don't feel comfortable exploring with it in that state (having it fall apart in mid-link would hardly be a good thing, methinks). However, that said, I must say that I approve of the direction this has taken since the first wind of unrest approached mine ears.

Should Ms. Alexander have shut down the DRC board without giving at least a week's notice? No.

Should there, at the very least, be access to archived materials? Yes.

Is popping down to the cavern once and asking a smattering of explorers if they "cared" that the boards were simply snuffed out a good method of finding out what the population of explorers think? No.

Should the vox populi be presented in such a public manner (as proposed above)? Most definitely.

The forums were public and now that we are without, meeting with DRC staff in person is the only method available to disgruntled explorers. I am VERY glad to see that this is no longer being called a "protest". Going in with a hand on your sword isn't the best method of bringing about change - especially if one still wants to get along with the other party after the meeting. Wink

As for my position on the loss of the forum itself...that is slightly more convoluted than that large chunk of text above this one (sorry about that folks, can you tell I've been writing a thesis?). On one hand, I think a central place for explorers to meet and exchange facts and ideas is very good. I mean, everyone splitting up and going to their own respective message boards is all well and good as it "forces" some mingling, however I am concerned that this may alienate explorers from each other in the long run. On the other hand, I found the DRC boards to be a...well, for lack of a better term...a cesspool. As others have stated, with proper moderation, this would not have been as large a problem. Question: are there enough Res. Engs. to do the job? Technically their time is better spent in the cavern working on ages than on the surface making sure people don't shout obscenities at one another.

I am unresolved on that dilemma, however of a few things I'm certain:
1. Ms. Alexander needs to see the dedication of explorers to everything that is going on in the Cavern and in conjunction with it.
2. Archives need to be made available of the old DRC boards, whether it comes back or not. Some things are just good to have around for posterity's sake.
3. Both sides need to make an effort to meet more often and discuss imporant issues that affect everyone involved in this project.

Aaand that should about sum it all up. Sorry I can't make it to the sit-in, but I'll be watching intently from the sidelines up here! *waves pennant*

~ Q
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