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The Great Tree
still kickin'
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Quaxo
Great Tree Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 184
Location: Tebryna
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 Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Woohoo! Fabulous episode! I really enjoyed it! 
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Professor Askew
Great Tree Member
Joined: 23 Dec 2003
Posts: 2532
Location: Bloomfield, CT
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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Marten et al....GreyDragon continues to voice his pleasure after seeing new episodes. :thumbsup:
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Professor Daniel Askew - Securing our reality from the machinations of the Station Masters. |
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Durin Mephit
Great Tree Officer
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
Posts: 3119
Location: Tigard, OR
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Cool to hear. Would like to see his actual comments one of these days...
(You need to share the prestige!  )
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Durin Mephit * Member of Guild of Messengers - Unless otherwise stated, opinions are mine only and not Guild endorsed.
rel.to | Marten KI: 59474 | Durin M KI: 11883768 |
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janaba1
Great Tree Member
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 1639
Location: berlin, germany
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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German announcements are online  |
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JohnLynch
Veteran Explorer
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Great video as always  Although somewhat disturbing in what it reveals. My more extended thoughts here.
Edited by the Professor to make the link more distinct. |
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Durin Mephit
Great Tree Officer
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
Posts: 3119
Location: Tigard, OR
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Your comments are interesting. I might actually register to add talkback.
For now, I'll say what I'm thinking here.
I am very bothered by your allegation that our documentaries are anything less than factual.
Anyone who has questions about the documentaries is welcome to interview the explorers who were there when these events occurred. We have done so ourselves, to ensure the factual accuracy of our production. We have not put words into anyone's mouths.
At the end of Episode 3, we do not state an opinion such as "As a consequence of the Great Tree's actions, the barriers were removed." We simply state the truth - that on December 1, 2003, the barriers were removed. If the viewer decides that the removal of the barriers was a response to the protest on Saturday, November 29, then that is the opinion of the viewer. Viewers should not conclude that, because one fact is reported after another fact, that the two facts are somehow related. Peanut butter is thick and creamy. The sky is blue. Does the creaminess of peanut butter cause the sky to be blue? No.
I will also say one more thing: You ain't seen nothing yet.
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JohnLynch
Veteran Explorer
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Marten wrote: | | I am very bothered by your allegation that our documentaries are anything less than factual. |
I thought the point of the documentaries were to tell what happened from The Great Tree's unique perspective? A particular perspective (any perspective) will have a bias. Also while it might not have been intended, it was the impression I got I imagine I'm not the only one who would get that impression either. Still, a good documentary. Although I'm a bit worried about what's to come 
Last edited by JohnLynch on Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:45 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Professor Askew
Great Tree Member
Joined: 23 Dec 2003
Posts: 2532
Location: Bloomfield, CT
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts, John. You are obviously passionate about D'ni. No one will ever know if TGT would have really tried to pull off a coup. The Cavern was closed officially before we ever had a chance. In fact, maybe that's the real reason the cavern was closed...the DRC didn't want to take the chance.
It's an interesting essay you wrote. One one hand you don't give us much credit in affecting change in D'ni and yet your overall tone suggests we strolled the Cavern weilding a dangerous level of power. My guess is that we were somewhere in the middle.
We take great pride in knowing the barriers came down right on the heels of the sit-in. We take equal amounts of pride that the DRC finally opened the door to Explorer representation in the Cavern in the form of liaisons. It took a while but we're happy with the results. We hope other Explorers see the benefit of speaking up and playing an active role in Cavern events.
Regarding bias: The film scripts are simply documented chat logs that are edited for time and in some cases (flashbacks) for dramatic effect.
It's not really clear to me whether you are pro DRC or not though you did state that there wouldn't be a restoration without them. And the fact that you now defend the DRC's right to have kidnapped Phil Henderson has me much more worried than any imagined coup.
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Professor Daniel Askew - Securing our reality from the machinations of the Station Masters. |
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Robert The Rebuilder
Explorer
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:49 pm Post subject: Bravo! |
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Just finished watching Episode 3. I like the unique style of this one, in its combination live-at-the-scene and flashback presentation. Wonderful job, all! Sit back, relax and enjoy a well-deserved holiday season.
...then get busy on Episode 4! I can't wait! 
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Rils
Great Tree Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 815
Location: Screw Ballard, I live in Edmonds now
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| JohnLynch wrote: | | I thought the point of the documentaries were to tell what happened from The Great Tree's unique perspective? A particular perspective (any perspective) will have a bias. Also while it might not have been intended, it was the impression I got |
While it's true that any perspective has a bias, in this case it's up to the viewers to form their own bias given the events. The chat logs we use to make the scripts are publically available, and people are free to check the movies against them. While many of them do involve the Great Tree, it is because the group (or certain people in it) was often a key part of what was going on. If it hadn't have been us, it would have been somebody else.
There's no real "spin" to give the story - events speak for themselves. These documentaries are just that - films documenting what went on in late 2003. They aren't intended as anti-DRC propaganda or anything, but merely a recreation of previous events to inform people of what has happened in the past and allow them to more intelligently be involved in what will happen in the future.
All of what's portrayed - the sit-in, Phil's visits, kidnapping and release, and later his death, are all stuff that really happened. But history is up to personal interpretation, and we try to leave that in the hands of the Explorers rather than force a particular point of view on them. Whether people come away from watching the films liking us or hating us is irrelevant; facts are facts.
~Rils
PS - Thanks Robert! We're already working on it...
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Durin Mephit
Great Tree Officer
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
Posts: 3119
Location: Tigard, OR
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Rils wrote: | | There's no real "spin" to give the story - events speak for themselves. These documentaries are just that - films documenting what went on in late 2003. They aren't intended as anti-DRC propaganda or anything, but merely a recreation of previous events to inform people of what has happened in the past and allow them to more intelligently be involved in what will happen in the future. |
To put it more bluntly, it isn't our fault if these videos happen to portray the DRC in a less than glowing light, because we are faithfully telling what really happened.
Where bias could be perceived in our storytelling is in our selection of which events to present. There are two limiting factors to that.
First, as Rils indicated, one or more members of the Great Tree were present at many of these events. When something happened and none of us were participants, we were very eager to collect stories from persons such as Zardoz and MrM3FaN who were not (and still are not) members of the Great Tree. Even so, it was impossible to be completely thorough in our endeavors, and I am sure that some stories will have slipped past us... and some may have been kept secret intentionally by those involved. So one element of "bias" is is that we can only present the information that we have. We can't present a side of the story that shows the DRC's secret meetings because we weren't there and we don't have knowledge of what transpired at them. (And of course, I am touching on one of our primary historical gripes with the DRC at that time - the lack of information.)
The second factor, and one that is more in our control, is in pruning the information we do have down to a manageable amount for presentation in these short (10 to 15 minute) videos. We're trying to present everything we humanly can. We've even expanded our original effort from 10 episodes to 11 because we had a heated debate about the importance of the events now shown in Episode 2... those events were originally going to be relegated to a tiny flashback sequence at the beginning of Episode 3. But some events have to be left aside. Still, if explorers want to learn more, the chat logs are available on our site. I admit that the logs are a little difficult to find right now as the front page of our site is redirecting to the forum, but in this very topic area (The Story of the Great Tree), there is a comprehensive list of which chat logs we are using and which we are not in the "Project Structure" thread. Here is a direct link: http://www.thegreattree.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?p=9744#9744
So in summary: We call this "The Story of the Great Tree" because it is how we saw events... but there is simply no way for us to present other "sides" of the story because the necessary information hasn't been made public. If anyone at the DRC wants to point a finger at us and accuse us of bias (and I am pleased to remind you that thus far, no-one at the DRC has made such a statement), in that hypothetical situation I would remind that person of the three more fingers pointing back at themself.
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Durin Mephit * Member of Guild of Messengers - Unless otherwise stated, opinions are mine only and not Guild endorsed.
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JohnLynch
Veteran Explorer
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Professor Askew wrote: | | One one hand you don't give us much credit in affecting change in D'ni and yet your overall tone suggests we strolled the Cavern weilding a dangerous level of power. My guess is that we were somewhere in the middle. |
I don't really have much faith in petitions (unless created by the company itself), protests or sit-ins. So I do have my doubts how much the ones that happened in D'ni had any affect on anything. I also wouldn't say you wielded a dangerous level of power. More that you planned on doing very dangerous things (if that difference makes any sense).
| Professor Askew wrote: | | We take equal amounts of pride that the DRC finally opened the door to Explorer representation in the Cavern in the form of liaisons. |
Yes I'd definitely say you helped make that a reality And thankyou for that.
| Professor Askew wrote: | | It's not really clear to me whether you are pro DRC or not though you did state that there wouldn't be a restoration without them. |
That wasn't so much being pro or anti DRC as stating a simple fact. I would have loved for the explorers to have been able to continue the restoration without the DRCs presence. But it didn't happen unfortunately. Now I hope we never enter a situation (at least in my lifetime) where the explorers get an opportunity to try to restore without the DRC present
| Professor Askew wrote: | | And the fact that you now defend the DRC's right to have kidnapped Phil Henderson has me much more worried than any imagined coup. |
At first I was as upset as anyone else. However then I tried seeing it from the DRC's point of view, and I could understand their motives, even if I wouldn't have gone to the extreme they did. The way I see it they saw a friend and colleague of theirs who was mentally healthy disapear for a year and then return and appeared to be mentally unwell. I'd certainly want to try to convince such a person to seek professional help. And the public environment wasn't conducive to such discussions. However I do not think I would have gone as far as the DRC did, I understand why they did. I've also since become even more fine with it now that I've read this chat log of Phil getting visited by Tink and how he was quite happy to remain in the DRC custody. I also have become even more fine with it having learnt (from the TGT documentaries that Phil had the ability to link at will so he truly wasn't being held against his will (although he was captured against it).
So yes, while I would certainly be concerned if the DRC repeated their behaviour, I do fear Dr. Watson will return in a similar state, and I don't know if I'll make any outcry if they do the same with him (although if they did it permanently I'd be quite worried). I know what its like to have someone you care about be mentally unwell and need psychiatric help, but not want it because they are so unwell. I wouldn't have blamed the DRC if they had taken Phil to the surface to a mental hospital. Although I imagine they didn't because even when Phil became completely normal, they still would have thought him crazy |
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Rils
Great Tree Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 815
Location: Screw Ballard, I live in Edmonds now
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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John - thanks for the link to that website. I have never seen some of the chat logs, and it will take some time to go over them thoroughly. Looks like there's some interesting material over there, helps to broaden the picture..
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Erik
Great Tree Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 1121
Location: the Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| I want to thank you as well! Very interesting chat log. |
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JohnLynch
Veteran Explorer
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| That's okay Thanks to The Great Tree for contributing some of those chatlogs |
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