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Saxy
Community Orchestrator
Joined: 23 Dec 2003
Posts: 1272
Location: Under the New Mexico desert
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 Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:37 pm Post subject: Communication with the DRC: New Plan |
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The gathering today was a bit of a mess. We had a group of people coming into Ae'gura that were against bringing the forums back. They tried to flood the place to prevent the gatherers, those hoping for open communication with the DRC, from attending. Cate made an appearance but thought the gathering was laughable--everyone was talking at once, and the trouble-makers made quite a scene. Cate left in a huff, "So this was the sit-in?"
Cate is a businesswoman. Like most businesspeople (being in business school, I should know), she wants the facts, professionalism, and orderly conduct. I've noticed in the previous few open meetings that she wasn't receptive to a large group of people, nor was she willing to speak to anything too specific. I'm thinking this calls for an organized, private, professional meeting with no more than three explorers and three DRC members.
I'm proposing we select a few explorers to represent those of us that are seeking open communication with the DRC to meet in private and attempt to come to an amicable solution to this problem. At the gathering today Cate said that the DRC forums were never really a place for communication with the DRC, only communication with other explorers. She also mentioned that the DRC rarely checked the forums, as well. We need to come up with a new solution.
To make it fair, these representatives should hold a Town Hall meeting to get an idea of what the community at large would like expressed in the planning with the DRC.
This is a big task, but it's worth a shot! I think it's the only way we'll be able to communicate with Cate and learn what she really wants from us... civilly. And who better to initiate this than The Great Tree, an organization that formed because of a struggle for open communication and exploration in 2003.
Thoughts? Ideas? Opinions?
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Not all who wander are lost... (MJ fixed my sig!)
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Durin Mephit
Great Tree Officer
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
Posts: 3119
Location: Tigard, OR
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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:thumbsup:
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Durin Mephit * Member of Guild of Messengers - Unless otherwise stated, opinions are mine only and not Guild endorsed.
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dcos
Great Tree Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Posts: 1174
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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Already said in cavern but I like this idea.
Do we have anything that would make her want to sit around a table with us though? |
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Saxy
Community Orchestrator
Joined: 23 Dec 2003
Posts: 1272
Location: Under the New Mexico desert
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| dcosgrove wrote: | | Do we have anything that would make her want to sit around a table with us though? |
Good point. We'll need some leverage. Has she been on the journey? Perhaps we have some information that she doesn't... and that could be valuable to her in some way. (That sounds evil.)
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Moiety Jean
First Lady of the Great Tree
Joined: 06 Jan 2004
Posts: 1852
Location: Seaaaaaattle
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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It's true, we do need some reason for Cate to want to listen to us. I've heard that soon we may have the opportunity to contribute monthly financial donations to the project and that may be reason enough for her to listen. However, I don't like the sense of obligation that is generated only by money. Perhaps there is some other level on which we can connect with Cate.
If Sharper were here and knew all of what was going on, I'd love to hear his opinion on things.
Oh, and I started another topic already. Maybe I should merge it with this one though it's not exactly the same.
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~Moiety Jean
KI#44727
"There is a certain beautiful danger when a group of geeks get together to entertain themselves." ~Orin Drake |
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Moiety Jean
First Lady of the Great Tree
Joined: 06 Jan 2004
Posts: 1852
Location: Seaaaaaattle
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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(Moved this log posted by Erik since I'd like to have one discussion on the subject of the Gathering results instead of a myriad of separate threads.)
Here's a transcript of the event...
| Quote: | (02/08 19:52:19) Chat.log started...
(02/08 19:52:20) d'ni everything: yes thank you
(02/08 19:52:24) Vixen Online: Sydney's movement is strong
(02/08 19:52:33) Nine-O-Nine: no...
(02/08 19:52:36) Moiety Jean: This is not a debate. Please allow those of us who have gathered to show THIS opinion to speak.
(02/08 19:52:50) AKA: Sydney who?
(02/08 19:53:07) Cate Alexander: So there is a group who doesn't want the forums?
(02/08 19:53:08) Tweek: yes the forums were hostile, some people are not too mature at times myself included, however with some decent moderation I think that could have been delt with. However the DRC forums retain alot of history, alot of information that some would like back and some would like Archived
(02/08 19:53:12) Saxy: And most importantly, the removal of the forums is symbolic of the DRC stepping away from communications with the explorers. We are concerned about this.
(02/08 19:53:14) Vixen Online: She leads the Anti DRC Movement
(02/08 19:53:24) Vixen Online: Yes
(02/08 19:53:37) Vixen Online: No forums cate
(02/08 19:53:38) Erik: Those who are sitting here, would like the forums back.
(02/08 19:53:50) Cate Alexander: Eight of you?
(02/08 19:53:57) Saxy: Or at least another way of open communication.
(02/08 19:53:58) Moiety Jean: Last comment from me. Ms Alexander, I suspect many who support the cause of this gathering are unable to be here right now.
(02/08 19:53:58) JWPlatt: Cate, you are going to have people for and against anything. It's an obvious answer.
(02/08 19:54:12) dcos: the actual sit in is not due to staart for another 6 minutes
(02/08 19:54:20) Moiety Jean: Because there are enough naysayers to have filled their spots in the Cavern.
(02/08 19:54:20) dcos: we're here early :)
(02/08 19:54:22) Tweek: my legs don't want me to keep sitting, and there are alot more than 8 of us who feel this way
(02/08 19:54:31) Donna: I just feel there are far more important issues
(02/08 19:54:32) Saxy claps her hands
(02/08 19:54:36) daht'ay: others are here to prevent supporters from getting into the city
(02/08 19:54:42) Vixen Online: Stand if you don't want the forums back
(02/08 19:54:48) Matthew Allen kneels down...
(02/08 19:54:52) Cate Alexander: So what is it about the forums - the number one thing - that you feel is missing?
(02/08 19:54:55) Tweek: well I can't sit so yeah
(02/08 19:55:04) JWPlatt: Moderators
(02/08 19:55:10) Sheila'R: Yes. Moderators
(02/08 19:55:11) Tweek: moderators
(02/08 19:55:16) Jan Stepmeir: our ability to communicate with you the DRC
(02/08 19:55:21) Saxy: Open communication.
(02/08 19:55:21) Cate Alexander: What I mean is that if they are gone, what will you miss?
(02/08 19:55:22) JulyForToday: I see no reason why the forums cannot be archive.. I'll respect any decision regarding it's ongoing use, but not archiving it seems a bit unreasonable
(02/08 19:55:24) daht'ay: A public forumfor the average explorer
(02/08 19:55:27) Kendah: Someone will probably open up an "illegal" forum, and where are we then?
(02/08 19:55:30) Sheila'R: I would like to see the forum back, but not as they had become
(02/08 19:55:37) Saxy: We need a way to keep communication between the DRC and explorers open.
(02/08 19:55:42) Cate Alexander: It seems the old information is what most people want.
(02/08 19:55:45) Vixen Online: More people stand than sitting, yay
(02/08 19:55:48) Tweek: I will miss the history/information thats located there and the communication line between us and the DRC
(02/08 19:55:54) JWPlatt: Yes, and the consistent presence of its owners.
(02/08 19:55:55) Jan Stepmeir: we need clear and USED lines of communication Cate
(02/08 19:55:57) Nine-O-Nine: At the very least.... yes. An archive.
(02/08 19:56:01) dcos: yes i loved being able to see the DRC discussion
(02/08 19:56:03) HannaGertie: a place to discuse and speculate about the D;ni, the restauration and everrything
(02/08 19:56:05) daht'ay: the archives are a separate issue, IMO
(02/08 19:56:13) Nine-O-Nine nods his head
(02/08 19:56:25) Donna: I liked the DRC to DRC stuff
(02/08 19:56:33) Cate Alexander: The DRC rarely interated with the forums so there wasn't much communication.
(02/08 19:56:34) Saxy: Many members of The Great Tree wish to be here today to represent open communications with the DRC but were not able to make it.
(02/08 19:56:44) Kendah: So how does one sit down?
(02/08 19:56:45) Erik: A place where every explorer can discuss and will be taken seriously (some people don't believe that there is a cavern)
(02/08 19:56:55) AKA: type /sit
(02/08 19:56:55) Nine-O-Nine: kendah, type /sit
(02/08 19:56:56) daht'ay: Any little nugget of info is good! :)
(02/08 19:57:09) Cate Alexander: It seems you just want to talk to yourselves more than anything.
(02/08 19:57:11) Vixen Online: Do you have the calling Cate?
(02/08 19:57:27) Saxy: We need to think of a better way to speak freely and regularly with the DRC, then.
(02/08 19:57:33) daht'ay: respectfully, Cate, that's not so
(02/08 19:57:49) Cate Alexander: In the past that is what the forums have been though.
(02/08 19:58:03) daht'ay: the recent past
(02/08 19:58:04) JWPlatt: Note: Cate is driving the question to elicit responses for her agenda. One hopes she will find value in waiting for our own inspirations.
(02/08 19:58:08) HannaGertie: well we do alos like to see the discustion between the drc, their speculation of what things are and how ages are going
(02/08 19:58:10) Saxy: But you have just said the DRC do not regularly visit the forums, is that correct?
(02/08 19:58:15) JulyForToday: you could always restrict the use of the forums to DRC personnel only... then we could listen in on them, but it would remove any problematic discussions between explorers
(02/08 19:58:16) Erik: Because the DRC had no funding the past years... thanks to you, they have now
(02/08 19:58:34) Jan Stepmeir: that's what they've been but that's not what they represented
(02/08 19:58:43) Cate Alexander: And they still have not used the forums.
(02/08 19:58:44) Vixen Online: the forums were full of crud, i didn't even want to read them
(02/08 19:58:59) daht'ay: they were unmoderated!
(02/08 19:59:00) AKA: I like the DRC site for the imformation it gives me...and to know what the Drc are doing...I didn't post...I Just lurked but I would very much like back.
(02/08 19:59:02) Cate Alexander: Although not that they are private, they are beginning to again.
(02/08 19:59:07) Erik: Some DRC members did use the forum lately
(02/08 19:59:18) Moiety Jean: Alright, not the last comment from me. In the far past, the DRC used the forums for quick messages to one another and it allowed us a glimpse into their inner workings. We appreciated this greatly, this indication that the DRC were working.
(02/08 19:59:30) dcos: indeed!
(02/08 19:59:34) Cate Alexander: Right, and we don't want to make those public anymore.
(02/08 19:59:35) Saxy nods her head
(02/08 19:59:37) Matthew Allen: Cate, it seems as though you are attempting to justify your own opinions rather than listening to others. Why exactly did you come?
(02/08 19:59:41) Nine-O-Nine: There was vaualble info in those forums, and will continue to have more - when they are open.
(02/08 19:59:43) JulyForToday: the forum is how we found out about the return of the DRC in the first place..
(02/08 19:59:47) HannaGertie agrees with moyetyjean
(02/08 20:00:03) Cate Alexander: I though you wanted communication back and forth. Didn't realize you just wanted to talk.
(02/08 20:00:07) Cate Alexander: Go ahead.
(02/08 20:00:18) daht'ay: Both, please...
(02/08 20:00:18) JWPlatt: There's a year of history and lessons and community on those forums, Cate. Do you find them of so little value?
(02/08 20:00:34) Tweek: to better accomodate supporters, to not have to deal with the nexus cap, and to stop supporters being kept out by non supporters we are moving this sit in to the Beginners Bevin
(02/08 20:00:42) Vixen Online: i don't think you should listen to them Cate, go on with your dictatorship
(02/08 20:00:43) JulyForToday: use /shout
(02/08 20:00:47) Amrak: You want communication, open up some ages Cate, win our hearts and minds.We will give you feedback.
(02/08 20:01:00) HannaGertie: we want to talk to both DRC and other exploresr, to exchange ideas and such
(02/08 20:01:09) Saxy: Even though it wasn't direct interaction with the DRC during those times, MJ, at least it was a step in understanding the DRCs plans.
(02/08 20:01:39) dcos: okay so are we relocating?
(02/08 20:01:41) Saxy: So we're moving this to the Beginners Bevin, correct?
(02/08 20:01:42) Erik: There was a real treasure of imformation on the old forums... and that's all gone now.
(02/08 20:01:42) Tweek: to better accomodate suppoters, to not have to deal with the nexus cap, and to stop supporters being kept out by non-supporters we are moving this sit in/discussion to the Beginners Bevin
(02/08 20:01:52) Donna: I for one am glad a woman is finally in charge around here!
(02/08 20:01:55) Vixen Online: i think Sydney will take over you place here Cate!
(02/08 20:02:06) JulyForToday: Im all for relocating..
(02/08 20:02:27) d'ni everything: Im hoping this calms down
(02/08 20:02:33) Amrak: Thumbs down for Sydney and his war mongering...
(02/08 20:02:40) Jan Stepmeir: the DRC needs to be open and keep us informed or we and them will just continue to butt heads and be misinformed
(02/08 20:03:15) Cate Alexander: So was that the sit-in then? |
_________________
~Moiety Jean
KI#44727
"There is a certain beautiful danger when a group of geeks get together to entertain themselves." ~Orin Drake
Last edited by Moiety Jean on Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:04 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Saxy
Community Orchestrator
Joined: 23 Dec 2003
Posts: 1272
Location: Under the New Mexico desert
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm, maybe this is the perfect opportunity for Sharper's return then, MJ. I don't know how he'd feel about attending this sort of meeting, but it sounds like he's already talked to Cate and might be able to key us in on what they were discussing.
Another way we can leverage discussion is by bringing up how the number of explorers are great, and if we can work together, we'd be an asset to her project.
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Not all who wander are lost... (MJ fixed my sig!)
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Moiety Jean
First Lady of the Great Tree
Joined: 06 Jan 2004
Posts: 1852
Location: Seaaaaaattle
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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And moving over my post from the other thread I started which I will lock in a minute...
| Quote: | Results of the sit-in Gathering ...were not at all good.
Someone will post a log soon, I'm sure. In summary, we showed up in the filled-to-capacity cavern, which was filled overly by people who seem to have come specifically to naysay our campaign. These people were rude, loud, and offensive in voicing their opinion that the DRC forums should stay down.
In trying to speak over them, we lost any respect from Cate (if we had any to begin with, which I doubt). She was "unimpressed" with our turnout and with our voice. When we moved to the Beginners' Bevin to allow more of our own people in, she left and did not follow.
I'm extremely disappointed both that we did not make a good impression on Cate and that she did not make a good impression on me. Funny how the naysayers did not follow us once Cate had left. |
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~Moiety Jean
KI#44727
"There is a certain beautiful danger when a group of geeks get together to entertain themselves." ~Orin Drake |
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Durin Mephit
Great Tree Officer
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
Posts: 3119
Location: Tigard, OR
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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Suggestions to try to spin this positively:
* Apologize to those inconvenienced by the situation.
* Apologize for the naysayers' rude behavior (although it wasn't our behavior) (we look concerned for explorer welfare, naysayers look like jerks)
* Point out our future plans on handling this situation
* Ask if anyone else has suggestions on what we could do better
Thoughts?
Oh. And yeah, no big surprise that the persons causing the trouble were the new "Anti D R C" group that I mentioned. Does anyone else get the impression that "Sydney" and "Vixen Online" are familiar faces wearing new names?
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Durin Mephit * Member of Guild of Messengers - Unless otherwise stated, opinions are mine only and not Guild endorsed.
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dcos
Great Tree Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Posts: 1174
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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While Cate is long gone. There continues to be a gathering in The Beginers Bevin. If another notable person were to show up it would certainly provide a second wind.
Alas no sign of other DRC or Sharper. But the resident ResEng is being nice  |
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Saxy
Community Orchestrator
Joined: 23 Dec 2003
Posts: 1272
Location: Under the New Mexico desert
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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Ooh, keep us posted Dan! And if Sharper comes back, nab him! 
Marten, luckily MJ wrote Cate a nice KI mail regarding a few of the points you brought up in your suggestion. MJ mentioned to me that Cate acknowledged it, too.
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Moiety Jean
First Lady of the Great Tree
Joined: 06 Jan 2004
Posts: 1852
Location: Seaaaaaattle
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I was going to mention that. I emailed Cate prior to the meeting letting her know about it if she didn't already, and requesting that she take note of those among the crowd who were not hollering for her blood.
And I just a few minutes ago sent a follow-up apologizing for how badly things went and hoping we may soon have a chance to make a better impression.
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~Moiety Jean
KI#44727
"There is a certain beautiful danger when a group of geeks get together to entertain themselves." ~Orin Drake |
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Durin Mephit
Great Tree Officer
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
Posts: 3119
Location: Tigard, OR
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Saxy
Community Orchestrator
Joined: 23 Dec 2003
Posts: 1272
Location: Under the New Mexico desert
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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I've made it a point to ignore Sydney's group.
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Durin Mephit
Great Tree Officer
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
Posts: 3119
Location: Tigard, OR
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Proverb:
Keep your friends close - hold your enemies closer.
Recent events have given a small, disruptive group of people a lot more free time to spend pissing in the community pool.
We need some disinfectant - stat!
There's two ways to approach it. First, they are trolls. From that perspective, ignoring is the best policy.
But second, they're stubborn and bored and I'm not sure they'll ever move on to annoy some other community. From that angle, if we want to be rid of them, the community really needs to kick them out, forcefully.
It is an annoying conundrum. 
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Durin Mephit * Member of Guild of Messengers - Unless otherwise stated, opinions are mine only and not Guild endorsed.
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