The Great Tree

[brian]

Why do people think "IC" is something that is hard?

How can anyone with the ability to take part in and understand a Myst storyline not grasp the concept of immersion?

I'm baffled...

I'm not playing a character, folks. This is how I am.

When I'm jacked into the matrix world of URU Live or UU, I treat it as if I were actually there, and act accordingly. Sure, the laws of physics have changed, and interpersonal interaction is a bit wonky, but it's still life, and I understand how the world works enough to project my actions there.

I'm honestly not trying to hurt anyone's feelings with this, but I don't see how this should be a dividing issue in the community.
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#Brian Fioca
#KI: 11882331
#KI: 1504111 [disconnected]

[brian]

Further, it's easy to understand why people get upset when you start talking about OOC things.

To make an analogy, people in the real world who go around pointing out people's life choices (love, career, friendships, etc.) as the product of chemical interactions in their brains are typically considered rude, at best, and at worst intolerable to be around.

People in URU who wonder openly about why the server is lagging or who is playing DRC characters or whatever are perceived in the same way.
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#Brian Fioca
#KI: 11882331
#KI: 1504111 [disconnected]

[Moiety Jean]

To make it worse, when confronted about it people throw up "free speech!"

::bangs head on desk::
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~Moiety Jean

KI#44727
"There is a certain beautiful danger when a group of geeks get together to entertain themselves." ~Orin Drake

[taniith]

I think part of the problem is that people don't understand that IC means being yourself within the realm of URU. The people that get angry when told to be IC seem to think that it means taking on a whole other personality rather than just being themselves without the use of the words "Shard", "lag", etc.

I mean, I could see the tension if this were WOW or everquest and people were told to act IC (as in, pretend to really be elfs who cast spells or whatever) all the time, but..... I lost that train of thought.

But yeah, I agree with what you two said.
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[Eleri]

What he said. I've been fighting this battle ever since I brought up dong more In Cavern play. People immediately think 'characters' and 'storyline', not immersiveness.
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[Professor Askew]

The people who think they aren't good at IC stuff are generally feeling the pressure of being "on" and are not relaxed enough to participate to the degree they see others doing so. This creates a feeling of inadequacy where role-playing is concerned. But, the bigger truth is that they are unaware that the best role-players are, in fact, simply being themselves in the context of a new reality. Once this is understood, it makes it much easier to participate. The more outgoing personalities will obviously have more to say and the shyer among us will have less...at least until they become more comfortable with the activity around them.

But, it's ALL good. Uru requires that we be ourselves when we confront this new reality. (The exception, of course, are those people who are perfectly comfortable playing the "role" of someone completely different than themselves...actors, for example.) I think it's important that those of us who enjoy pursuing the story of Uru vigorously try to help those who have a genuine interest in Uru to become more comfortable. Private chats in Relto, or personal messages during an NPC visit, etc. Even if it means telling that person to watch and listen to what's happening around them.

The problem is that Uru never really came close to meeting it's potential because too many players were left to their own devices. The seeds of UU-style gameplay were planted during the Prologue because there was no new content, too much lag, and many of us relied too much on chat logs to keep up on the storyline. And before anyone thinks I'm speaking negatively of Until Uru...I'm not. I'm simply pointing out that Until Uru is not a game. Hopefully, any new take on Uru Live will be.

This is a difficult subject for a forum. I believe there should be some type of outreach program to help those who feel left out or excluded. Perhaps the Guild of Greeters would be best suited for this. It would only take an hour at most to bring explorers up to speed. Because "playing" Uru is just that simple. But, the last thing I want to see happen is a transference of UU to a new Uru Live....if that's where we're heading. Who really knows?

Do I think the Ladies Garden Club should be cancelled? The D'ni Olympics? Sardines? Absolutely not. But, I would like to see a return to some serious story-driven gameplay. So would a lot of the old veterans based on recent activity. And it's ALL do-able. I'm excited about the possible future of Uru. And the whole IC/OOC thing is hurdle I think we should get past as quickly as possible. It's silly. I had no problem participating in a heated Great Tree discussion only to follow up with a chat about recent movies once the meeting broke up. It can all be accomplished with little effort.

I do agree that the DRC forum should be strictly IC. There are so many other places for OOC discussion, I don't blame ResEng233 for being a little frustrated. Thank God we can't post in the DRC members section. People would be asking Laxman the most inappropriate things. LOL
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Professor Daniel Askew - Securing our reality from the machinations of the Station Masters.

[brian]

GD made a post about it here:

http://www.uruobsession.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=35&t=22957&s=9889eb8b396275b7ea4c05af796dfd99


(Thanks, GD!)
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#Brian Fioca
#KI: 11882331
#KI: 1504111 [disconnected]

[Moiety Jean]

Professor, you've made a GREAT post about the whole issue. I wonder if you'd care to post it somewhere at DRCsite, since so many people there seem to be confused about the issue? (or maybe UruObsession to avoid any further IC/OOC burrs under the DRC saddle)
GreyDragon's post is excellent too. I'm glad he stepped in to say something.
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~Moiety Jean

KI#44727
"There is a certain beautiful danger when a group of geeks get together to entertain themselves." ~Orin Drake

[Professor Askew]

Wow........I'm tired now. So...much....typing....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Professor Daniel Askew - Securing our reality from the machinations of the Station Masters.

[Ashtar]

Although I can certainly understand the call for people to remain IC on the DRC forum, we should also try to understand the feelings of those who prefer to remain OOC. For example, Gelf56 made the remark something along the line of "If you can't be IC then perhaps you don't belong here". Although technically correct, that's not the best way to get your point across Some people like SuperGram took it personally, and really I don't blame them. Fortunately Professor Askew and a few others came along to explain what it means to be IC and she should still particpate in the discussions.

We have to remember, that for the last year and a half many people have kept the spirit of Uru alive by particpating in Until Uru. Some of it was IC, but for the most part, it was entirely OOC. Many of the people there never experienced the prologue and what it was like with the DRC. So we will need to show some patience and leniency if we return to the cavern. Hopefully they will find the IC aspect of the game as enjoyable as we did

Ashtar
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Uru Live KI #: 69208

[Professor Askew]

Very true, Ashtar. The transition may be a little awkward at first but ultimately, to get the most out of Uru, a little (or a lot) of IC work would be most beneficial. And those of us with a greater comfort level should help out those who don't. Mostly it's showing them how simple it is as long as they keep it simple and true to who they are.
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Professor Daniel Askew - Securing our reality from the machinations of the Station Masters.

[Daedalus]

I hated this discussion then and I still hate it now -- why people are so bent out of shape over having to go along with the story. Like it's indignifying or something. I remember many conversations of people getting very very angry because someone (including myself) was trying to immerse themself in the world beyond simply being there.

The prologue was centered around a story. A very intriguing one. I couldn't understand why those that didn't want to get involved spoke out against those that did. Games are supposed to be fun, no?

[Professor Askew]

It's a difficult subject, to be sure, because neither side really understands the other. It's all about left brain, right brain, logic versus creativity, the comfort/discomfort of role-playing (no matter whether you play yourself or not), etc. And we're not all the same.

But, as far as I'm concerned, Uru has yet to be tested as a GAME online. So far it's proven to be a fairly good place to gather for social occasions and fan-created events via Until Uru. (I say fairly because no one can claim that UU's population is bursting at the seams.) But, you KNOW this isn't what Cyan envisioned during all those years of development. The Live Prologue was as close as we got to Uru functioning as intended but even then the powers-that-be were obviously distracted with a number of concerns. The Prologue was still beta testing. There were a number of technical issues they were focused on, most of Prime was already played as a standalone game so we couldn't really share in those discoveries. I know for myself I missed quite a bit of the NPC activity because I was forced to play late at night due to my job. And this is silly because online gaming is global and everyone should have the opportunity to interact with the ongoing storyline. Thank God for the Great Tree or I might not have had anything to do. But, one would assume that if Uru had taken off, they would have worked NPCs in shifts for people of various time zones.

But, I digress. Without being spoon-fed, I believe Uru online would have worked in a few ways:

1) Solving puzzles and visiting Ages to move the story along and learn more and more about D'ni. All of this would have led to...

2) New Ages to explore and new puzzles to solve to continue unfolding the story of D'ni.

3) (No less important) Interaction with the DRC and other characters in a semi-role-playing capacity. All the groups/factions that were formed participated in this function to one degree or another. Safety First stood by the DRC in their concern for explorer's safety. The Guild of Greeters were designed to welcome explorers and familiarize them with the new environment. And of course the Great Tree were around to be a thorn in the DRCs side thanks to the relationship Brian had with Douglas Sharper. And there were other groups who "played along" as well. All of it was IC...it was effortless and organic.....(except for the nudges and winks that came from Cyan).

4) (Also no less important) It was obvious that Cyan had in mind certain activities that were not story driven. Ayoheek and Marker hunts being the obvious. With the advent of Until Uru, it was up to explorers to fill in the gaps with the absence of items 1, 2, and 3. And they did a remarkable job. Obviously, if Uru Live were to re-emerge, many of the fans who have hung on throughout the two years will want to continue these newfound activities. And they should.

However, Uru will never be complete without those first three items. And, yes, IC participation will be vital in keeping Uru interesting and alive. Everyone will eventually find their comfort levels and everything will be fine. And Cyan must be a partner in this new Uru...they must have a solid presence. IC without them just won't happen.
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Professor Daniel Askew - Securing our reality from the machinations of the Station Masters.

[Rils]

The simple fact with IC/OOC is that some people know how to do it while others need to learn. Its just like any other social skill, which everyone possesses to a greater or lesser extent. We just need to be patient with those who haven't had as much practice as those who have.

I was always a litle frustrated by the "storyline" content of Live. Like Prof Askew, I too missed just about all the story-driven happenings due to work, a general lack of personal computer time, and just life in general. Seems like it all happened rather spontaneously, if you happened to be there, lucky you. If not, well, you hope somebody recorded the chat long. I didn't even know half of what went on until about a week ago when I found this website and started going through the archives. Imagine my surprise to find out that all the stuff I'd heard of as rumor and third hand news actually DID happen! It wasn't just someone posting "oh, Phil fell off a cliff and is MIA..." on a forum somewhere.

The tough part is how to make that more accesible. Obviously you can't send out a message to everyone saying "Hey, be at the Plaza at noon PST on Friday, there will be 'exciting goings-on'." But those of us who weren't involved can't somehow help feeling slightly left out, when we wanted to be just as much a part of the action as others got to be.

The other consideration for me (and this is COMPLETELY ooc) is that Live, as the beta test that it was, seemed more of a social activity than a game. After you'de gone through the Ages and got your Yeesha shirt, the ongoing interest was based entirely on new things to do. Smuggling fireflies between Kemo and Gira is only interesting for so long, and I gave up on it very quickly cuz I was tired of kicking those dang baskets around in the water. But with new content coming few and far between, the continuing interest just wasn't there. And if it was a matter of sitting at my computer wondering who else might just happen to show up online and my buddies standing there saying "hey, we're going over to Jim's, are you coming", sorry, Jim is gonna win!

I agree that the whole thing revolves around IC exploration, whether by yourself or with a group. Some folks are natural with this, but I think it needs to be encouraged and even lead along in some cases to keep the Cavern alive. How can we do this?

~Rils

[brian]

Ok, I should say that I really don't mean to harp on people who "don't get IC", I just agree with Daedalus that the people who have trouble shouldn't criticize or otherwise impede the ones that want to.

It's the thing that attached me to the game in the first place. The whole ARG aspect of it.

I'd love to see more...

The day that Sharper ripped into me because of something I had posted on a unrelated forum shocked me, and made me realize that this *was* real. He even corresponded with us outside of the Cavern, allowing us to plot our strategies while not even being there. It brought it into my daily life, and I was hooked. I hope someday everyone can experience some level of that.

I tried to play other MMOs like WOW, but it just isn't the same. Unless the King of Ironforge gets up one day and starts organizing raids and appointing secret service guard and such, it will never have the same drive URU did for me.
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#Brian Fioca
#KI: 11882331
#KI: 1504111 [disconnected]